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Old 02-26-2012   #1
bigH2O
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Going Mad

There's not really a forum here for connection between 7 and XP so I'm tossing this out in a general discussion area.

I've got a LAN that consists of several XP Pro boxes and several 7 boxes of mixed flavor, both home and pro. The problem that I'm having is that it seems that my XP boxes, or my 7 boxes, and I don't know which, have developed alzhiemers and decide not to communicate with each other. Half the time networking between the two platforms work, and half the time it doesn't.

Always I can see my media folders and the like between the two, but half the time I can't see my critical file folders between the two, getting the "no permission to use this network resource" message. There is no rhyme or reason why the networking is breaking down. Static IPs, same user ID and passwords on all boxes, 24/7 connection with all devices on power stable UPS' so they never go down unless I tell them to.
Sometimes it works, othertimes it won't.

I can watch streaming video off of the internet from XP wired, XP wireless, 7 wired or 7 wireless seamlessly, anytime, but when I try to view a folder from one or the other to grab a file, it's a gamble as to whether it's going to work or not. It's like a b*tch on the rag as to whether it's going to cooperate.

It's killing me, and for all the research I've done I cannot find an answer to the problem. I'm feeling that I need to just go back to XP for everything, because I can't go forward to 7 for my production machines until my vendors bring their software up to 7.

I truly love 7 for browsing the web and the like, but it's like two football teams clashing helmets on the football field when it comes to getting XP and 7 to cooperate in a network. Any ideas?
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Old 03-02-2012   #2
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Sounds to me like an authentication problem. This is more prevelant in domain environments though...and you didnt mention if you are running a domain (dont see why you would on a home network with small amount of users).

But, that being said...your problem is most likely because you dont reboot your boxes often enough. I too, leave my PC's on 24/7...but do reboot them weekly...or whenever they start "clunking" along.

Set scheduled tasks to reboot all machines on your network once a week at a time that you arent using them, and see if that helps your issue.

goodluck
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Old 03-02-2012   #3
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No domain... workgroup. I have booted all the boxes a few times since this problem started to no avail.

A little update. It's starting to look like the Win 7 box I need to transfer files to and from is bouncing back and forth between being part of the network infrastructure to defining itself as a media device. When I have problems, I check the networking and it'll be a media device. When it works I check the networking and it'll be part of the infrastructure. I can't figure out what's causing it to bounce back and forth though.
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Old 03-02-2012   #4
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This is just crazy. I've bounced every component in the network, logged into every one of the boxes using the same administrator account and password, and still can't reliably re-establish networking on a browsing level basis. I've turned off power saving and screen savers. I know that file sharing is correct on all drives. All boxes are in the same workgroup, all have dedicated IPs and the same subnet mask. All can access the internet through my switch and router. I can ping every machine from every other machine by machine name and/or ip and get immediate responses back. My nightly backup routines that copy files from my design machine to various drives around the network is still functioning, but I cannot browse the network, not even with mapping the drive as \\machinename\drive. I keep getting the "might not have permission to use this network resource" on all of the XP boxes, and the other boxes just simply don't appear in the networking tab in Win7 boxes. The infuriating thing about it is is that this network has been rock solid and steady with the XP machines for oh, I guess about eight or more years now with machines added and removed over the years, the last one added about 1-1/2 years ago. It's been stable with the Win7 64 Pro box for over a year, and been stable with the Win 7 64 Home notebook since last October. This only started happening about a month ago. I'm about ready to take every component out of this network and take them all and line them up in the back yard and waste a box of 12 guage buckshot on them to put the whole thing out of my misery... then rebuild the whole thing over again from the ground up. I wonder if this might have been caused by a Windows update, but cannot find any complaints about that on the Internet.
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Old 03-20-2012   #5
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Sorry for the late reply...dont get out much these days. LOL

Read this thread, if you havent already.

http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...f-38eb64480ca7
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Old 04-01-2012   #6
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Well I finally figured it out. It only took me a month of scratching my head to get it straight. I thought I was an IP genius, but evidently I've still got a lot to learn. I'm using the private IP range of 10.X.X.X for my network. All static IPs. Not enough machines to go past the last quadrant, so it's realy 10.0.0.X. When I bought my new Win 7 notebook, it suggested to me that I set my IP subnet mask to 255.0.0.0, which I did. I figured that if I set all my other machines to the same subnet mask, they would be more in tune, so I did. Everything worked fine for a few months, then they stopped communicating. This morning I went around the network and set all of my subnet masks back to 255.255.255.0 and viola... everything is working in harmony again. Yay, I can now communicate with every machine on my network.

Funny thing is that my Samsung TVs and DVD player and Onkyo receiver never had a problem connecting to the network. They were always visible. Windows is funny.
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Old 04-02-2012   #7
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I usually use the 192.168.x.x convention and don't have issues. I remember reading something that steered me from the 10.x convention, but I don't remember and I am no IP expert.
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Old 04-03-2012   #8
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I chose to go the 10 range because it seems to be much faster than 192.168 range, and it flows off the fingers a lot faster. Also because 192.168 is not VPN friendly, which I needed when I first set up my network years ago when I was connecting to my companies corporate network. Also because anybody trying to snoop your private network is probably only going to try the 192.168 address range, because that is the most common. Also because 192.168 doesn't work with VMWare... there's probably a dozen other reasons I use the 10 range.

The relationship between the subnet mask and the IP range though is something that has always befuddled me. I've tried studying it, and always end up on sites that have people preaching way over my head and I end up six beers into it. All I know is for sure is that my network is now working again with a subnet mask of 255.255.255.0 on all machines, and that's where I'm leaving it at until it messes up again.
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Old 04-18-2012   #9
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First off, Im not posting in this thread to come off as a "know it all". I'll be the first person to state that I am far from one that "knows it all" with technology. But, there is a lot of misinformation here in the last couple of posts and for integrety of the discussion, I will clear it up the best I can...while trying to keep details down to "laymen terms"

I am glad you got your network functioning again...and I guess that if I had known of your subnetting, I would have made a couple different suggestions than I did. I just "assumed" that you were running a typical "class C" subnet.

When you disclosed that your SNM was 255.0.0.0, that means that with that...you would be able to assign up to 16,777,214 IP addresses to your network. Yes, thats right almost SEVENTEEN MILLION IP ADDRESS are obtainable with a subnet mask of 255.0.0.0 and that is the only reason you would want to use a "class A" network class.

Unless you are a HUGE corporation that has offices all over the globe, there is NEVER a reason to use a subnet that HUGE! This has nothing to do with accessing the networked systems any quicker. If you have lag, it definitely has nothing to do with using a Class A subnet scheme over a Class C.

On a class C subnet scheme, you can have up to 254 hosts (or IP addresses). Last time I checked, I never had 254 hosts on my home network. And for most ordinary homes/people, Class C is more than enough. I run a "hybrid" here at my workplace. I still use 192.168.x.x (simply because that is how it was setup when I came here) BUT I use a net mask of 23 rather than 24. a /23 (CIDR notation) gives me 8 full bits in the first 2 octets of the SNM and 7 bits in the third. A /23 will give me 510 network host addresses. Any more than that and I would actually use Class B IP addressing which starts with 172.16.x.x. Im going on a tangent here now...so I'll continue on.

Moving on, you may very well experienced issues when using Class C subnetting when trying to use a VPN. This has nothing to do with Class C IP range itself...but rather the VPN IP that is given to connected hosts using the VPN tunnel. To sum it up easily...what happened is that you had an IP address in the same subnet as your VPN appliance. And because of this...it confused itself because there was most likely already an IP address of the same thing at your corporate office (or wherever the VPN appliance was located) and it didnt know how to route the traffic. Test this error on your own network by giving 2 computers on your network the EXACT SAME IP address. One of them wont work (the 2nd one that came online most likely, or the 2nd NIC that became active). So the easiest thing is to just use a totally different IP range. Most companies dont use 192.168.x.x simply because almost all "off the shelf" networking routers/access points/modems use 192.168.x.x for DHCP and its too much support for IT in a company to try and get all VPN users connected when these IP ranges are most likely the same in 90% or more of homes. The easy thing is for the company to NOT use 192.168.x.x in their networks. But rather a network class that is private and not used by 90% or more of the home network crowd. Thus, a class B or A scheme.

Again, moving on. VMWare could care less about what IP range or subnet you use. I have 6 vmware host servers all running on a modified class C subnet scheme. All of my virtuals have static 192.168.x.x IP addresses, as well as the hosts. This works fine. If you were having vmware issues by using a 192.168.x.x range of IP addresses...your problem was within the subnet mask most likely, or possibly a routing or NATing issue. Again, VMWare doesnt exclude the use of 192.168.x.x subnetting.

After saying all of that, I hope I havent stepped on anyones toes. And really, I am still at a loss as to why your computers did not like being part of a HUGE network when subnetted in that manner. I mean really, the computers on your network could care less if there are 10 or 10 million other hosts on the network. If I had to point a finger at any one thing, knowing what I know now about your issue...I would say that the problem point was with your router (regardless of if you have a separate router, or a built in one with your ISP modem). Perhaps, and the most logical explanation is that when you had the 255.0.0.0 subnet going...your ISP uses the same subnet and this is where the "routing" broke down. The router couldnt keep up with what hosts were in its own subnet from the ISP against the ones on your local subnet. And using the 10.x.x.x IP range...you may have assigned a range there that the ISP was using on their hosts. Just a guess...but at least you got it sorted with changing the subnet to something smaller and different than that of your router or DHCP server.

In the end, it all worked out. And I only wanted to divulge what I have learned about the topic over the past 9 years working in the field day to day. I didnt know much about it 9 years ago myself. But have been forced to learn it as I am in charge of a network as my living. On top of that, I know this site doesnt get a lot of posts...but still gets quite a bit of views and I would hate for people to get misinformed and get way out in left field trying to troubleshoot a similar issue.

Hope you guys have been doing good. I dont get to the site much anymore because of life and other projects. But I do check in a couple three times a month.

Take care!
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Zero Tolerance
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As I was walking up the stairs
I met a man who wasnt there
He wasnt there again today
I wish...I wish he'd go away!

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Old 04-18-2012   #10
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No stubbed toes Zero. The more information shared on this site, the smarter we all become.

I had been using the 255.255.255.0 subnet mask on all of my machines until I got my notebook, and it recommended that I use 255.0.0.0 subnet on the 10.x.x.x IP range. I only have maybe fifteen devices on my network... computers, routers, wireless bridges, printers, televisions, etc. But when the notebook suggested I go to 255.0.0.0 on the subnet mask, I figured everything needed to be the same, so I went around and changed all devices to 255.0.0.0. I think things started going to hell as individual devices were re-booted. But yes, now that everything has been reset to 255.255.255.0 subnet mask (including that stupid notebook), all is working fine again.
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