Pledge of Allegiance

[Weis1]

please sign this if you believe in it!


(Forward this message to your friends)
10/14/03
I have signed a Grassfire.net petition calling on the U.S. Supreme
Court to support the Pledge of Allegiance by reversing an earlier
ruling that found the Pledge to un-Constitutional.
This is a critical case that if not overturned, could affect other
critical foundational documents in our nation.

By adding my name to the 398,607 citizens who are
standing to save the Pledge, I am sending a message to the U.S.
Supreme Court that I expect them to do everything in their power
to protect and preserve our Pledge of Allegiance for the
generations of citizens that follow.

Please click here and join me in signing this crucial petition and
have your petition delivered to the Supreme Court and Congress:

http://gfir.ws/14/pledge.asp?PID=2527464

[Dave420]

we have already been through this -the under god part was added in the 50's -so removing it would do nothing more then make it the way it was originally intended to be.if these religous freaks really wanted to protect it then they would not have changed it to start with.

[Weis1]

The original
Pledge of Allegiance

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands- one nation indivisible-with liberty and justice for all."



I see nothing wrong with this version.


I posted the above link without properly knowing the story.

[Zero Tolerance]

"It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favors.".....George Washington (1789)

"Statesmen, my dear Sir, may plan and speculate for Liberty, but it is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand." .....John Adams (1776)

"And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with his wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just: that his justice cannot sleep for ever." .....Thomas Jefferson (1781)


Clearly our forefathers were VERY much believers in God! This whole debacle is simply because tha heathens get a lil wad in their panties cuz "under God" was implemented.....thus making them feel threatened that a religion is being "forced" upon them.

If Christianity was good enough for the founding fathers of this country....its good enough for me!

PS....Francis Bellamy's ORIGINAL pledge reads....

'I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.' .....Francis Bellamy (1892)

so why is it ok.....that we added the word "to" in front of "the Republic"....and changed "to my Flag" to "to the flag of the United States of America"????

i dont see anyone bitching about wanting to change it back to the TOTALLY original pledge!

[JoeCool]

well done ZT

[Dave420]

because to and the flag of the United States of America does not force a religous viewpoint on someone else-your argument thet the founders were christian has no merrit in this case because they also came up with freedom of religion.
I will agree with your point if you are willing to say under Buda or under Alah or under satan -I dont understand why christians feel the need to force God on everyone every chance you get.

[Dave420]

Originally posted by JoeCool
well done ZT

if your a christian -I guess small minded people think alike.
:D

[Zero Tolerance]

im not forcing my God or anything on you or anyone

and who are you to say it was ok to add the "to" and the "of the United States of America" to the pledge but it wasnt OK to add the God part

sounds to me like you are the one trying to force your ideas on everyone else

i simply said that i dont see anyone bitching to remove those other 2 revisions....just the one that includes God

dont half ass it....either leave it alone...or remove it ALL!!

pretty simple really

[Dave420]

no because you are spliting hairs on the way to say something vs adding a referance to religon.
we don't say shalt or hast or any of these other outdated terms any more -those changes just moved it into this century without changing the meaning-but to add under God assumes that we all believe in God and we don't.
the real problem here is christians trying to force there view(God) on everyone else-if you remove god from the pledge it does NOT force any opinion on anyone -now if I said change it to "not under any god" or "one nation without a god"then that would be forcing my opinion on you-think before you post something that is not real bright ,I know you are smarter than that.

[Zero Tolerance]

good way to skate the issue Dave

a nice long paragraph explaining to me YOUR interpretation as to why "to" and "of the USofA" is ok to stay included

i know im smarter than that too....and on that one ill step out of this useless discussion

[Dave420]

I think you need to reread my post -I totally addressed your question directly -if your feelings are hurt that easy then I am suprised.there is no reason for me to repeat what I said -you can look up a couple of posts and see it.your logic is like saying if I dont post praise god in every post I make ,I am forcing my view of there is no god on everyone-think about it.

[Zero Tolerance]

lol...my feelings arent hurt...

i was just pointing out that you are in no way an authority to give reasons as to why the "to" and "of the USofA" should remain and "under God" removed

i guess the next thing that should be changed according to your reasoning is Shakespear's "Hamlet".....and any other work that was written in a way that is harder to understand in the wording it was originally written in

my simple point that you obviously dont get is.....

if it was ammended on 3 occasions......then let it stand...or strip it back to the original.....not somewhere in the middle to where its left to us "small minded religious freaks"...or you "closed minded heathen treehuggers"...being the judge as to what is and what is not acceptable

PS..i still love ya ;)

and if i were Catholic...id pray your ass into Heaven....but I'm not so I guess you have to count on ZB to do that.....if he can remember to! LMAO!!

[Dave420]

he prays for me all the time :) -but I still disagree on the all or nothing argument.my point was simply if you took out under god ,it would still say the same thing as the original -just sounds better and draws it out a bit-kinda like green jello is nasty vs I don't like green jello because it tasts bad -they both convey the same point but if you say green jello tasts bad and jesus is lord -now you have changed it to include a religous viewpoint.see my reasoning now?

[Zero Tolerance]

i see your reasoning....just dont happen to agree with it...LOL

i know...as well as you(probably)...that Francis meant the USofA when he wrote "to the flag"....BUT whos to say that the interpretation can/could be ANY flag(in todays time..not at the time it was written)....also...."under God" could be construed as ANY god....

that really is nitpicking the matter......of course I would like to see it unchanged....and even though the author was a preacher himself....i know he didnt want it changed ONE word either....so why not just leave it as it is since the damage has been done...or if changes have to be made once again....let it go back to the original

[Greg]

Shouldn't it be...

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the United Corporations of America."

[Zero Tolerance]

Originally posted by noppid
Shouldn't it be...

"I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the United Corporations of America."

might as well be!

LMAO

[Dave420]

any god still implies everyone believes in a god-the point you still missed.so we ar NOT one nation under god.
its funny how most people think that on some level I must believe in some god of some sort -well I assure you I do not.

[Zero Tolerance]

i didnt miss that point.....i know what it implies.....and i didnt make that ammendment

my whole point which you have missed is ITS in there along with the other 2 ammendments....and therefor just because its a statement about "God"...makes it no less or more of a reason it should go and the other 2 ammendments are "ok"

using the argument that its referencing God makes no difference....what if i say i dont like it in ANY form other than the original form?...then what?....are you authorized and informed enough to tell me that im wrong??....simply by saying that "oh we made those other changes because this is the 20th century and it sounds better that way??

LOL...now that is funny

in the end...it wont be up to you or I if it stays or not.....and it really doesnt matter to me in the end simply because I havent recited the pledge since 6th grade and I dont plan on making it part of my daily routine

but by saying that...it opens up the sole reason for the controversy.....mostly gradeschool level children are the ones reciting the pledge....and of course the "waves" that are being made over this is im sure by parents(probably with similar or identical views as you on religion)....i just hope that the majority wins out over this.....and like it or not...the majority believe in a "higher power"

PS.......maybe this whole dilemma could be solved by simply banning the pledge from being said in schools...then it could be left well enough alone....but wait...that wouldnt be patriotic....who cares..im not patriotic anyway!

[Greg]

Our education system sucks so bad that some graduates can't pass an examine to get in the military.

At this point we can say one nation under alluh and it wouldn't improve the education our children are getting.

That's the big picture in this debate. The things that really matter go unnoticed and crap like this ties up congress and the courts.

Both sides of the prayer issue are wrong when you realize the real issues are not being addressed while this plays out.

[woods26]

I do not believe in a higher power. I do not care if the word god is in the pledge. I do care about people who believe in god thinking they are so correct and everyone else is so wrong. If you look at history there are many many cases of church running state. This should never be the case. If people here in this forum cant change policy in this country then I would say we are getting at the root of the main problem in the USA eh? 911 isnt a result of being a godless nation like all the bible pushers like to preach, but a result of corporate policy. 85% of the government was millionaires before they took office. I am refereing to senators and congressmen and higher up. They came from the corps that they help in office. The people who believe in god think its important to keep the word god in the pledge, it never hurt me to say it eventhough I do not believe in hoccus poccus. Weather it stays or goes I am just glad it gives everyone something to do while the corps take over, arent you?