View Full Version : our government at work
Dave420
10-10-2003, 07:01 PM
this really makes me sick.this is why I hate Bush and say he is a dangerous person.
http://www.msnbc.com/news/977037.asp?vts=101020031631
Zero Tolerance
10-10-2003, 07:56 PM
i know how to stop this
make those wannabe terrorists dig a deep and long ditch....shoot them all except 2 of them...and have those 2 cover up the ditch and let them go to spread the word of what we do to wanna be terrorists
i have no pitty AT ALL
HomeBrew
10-10-2003, 08:58 PM
Dang ZT! Your influence must be rubbing off on me. Good idea! Most of these people have sworn an oath to distroy our way of life. If a few get caught up in all this mess by mistake, so be it. No Pitty! All those thousands of people who died in the towers, were given no rights. This really is a war, and the stakes are huge. If it comes down to their way of life or ours, no contest. As many things as I see we do wrong in the world, I see ten times that amount, we do right. It's not about a single man we elect as our leader, it's about what we stand for as a country. It's not about which political party can put the most money in our pockets, it's about who is willing to defend our way of life. It's about those who give their lives so we have the right to speak our minds, without fear. I'm proud to live here and be a part of this great country.
HB
Originally posted by HomeBrew
If a few get caught up in all this mess by mistake, so be it. No Pitty!
HB
Pity damn it, it is spelled pity. And BTW, "our way of life" advocates that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. If your daughter was "caught up in this mess"-would you say "so be it"? I can agree that in war-time holding prisoners of war is prudent however, no declaration of war has been issued. Therefore, these people are being held by an administration not world laws or values. Similar situations have occurred over time and the general consensus in the US was to call the captives "hostages". Are these people being held for DIRECT connection to the events of 9-11 subject to our laws or world laws? Are they people fighting a "non-war" subject to only the laws of an administration? These are questions that must be asked if we are to uphold "our way of life".
HomeBrew
10-10-2003, 10:09 PM
WKS Your points are well taken. But we have never faced an enemy like this in our history. I ask you in response, would you let even one of these people go if you thought for a second they might repeat what happened on 9-11, and your daughter might be the next victim? I respectfully have to say my answer is no. It is my firm conviction that this is a new world we're living in. I'm all for the law of innocent until proven guilty, but I believe this truly is a war who's outcome is still uncertain. Until the war is over, if ever, I'll stand by what I said.
HB
Originally posted by HomeBrew
I ask you in response, would you let even one of these people go if you thought for a second they might repeat what happened on 9-11, and your daughter might be the next victim?
HB
I cannot convict someone for what they "might do". A society that can imprison someone for their "potential" is a society of professional victims. A society of victims is a society of fear, a society of fear is a society of many ruled by few.
"The land of the free the home of the brave" meant we would FEARLESSLY uphold our rights, if not we have lost more than the war. I sir, am not a victim.
HomeBrew
10-10-2003, 11:16 PM
It's far more than their potential in this case. It's what they have already done. When as a group, these people have shown so little value for human life, and a willingness to attack us with all means at their disposal, I say they have no rights. We are upholding our rights not those who would distroy us. I'm not saying mistreat them in any way, I certainly hope we would never lower ourselves to their level. But Don't think for a second they wouldn't kill you, me and all of us if they could. And I certainly am not now, nor will I ever be a victim. I'm just very honest with myself about human nature, self survival being the strongest of the human instincts.
HB
Toyotathon
10-10-2003, 11:20 PM
Don't wanna get into a big debate - but Robin hits the nail on the head!!!!!
Subject: The Robin
Williams' Plan- LOVE IT!
Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan... what
we need now is for our UN Ambassador to stand up and repeat this
message.
Robin Williams' plan...(Hard to argue with this logic!)
I see a lot of people yelling for peace but I have not heard of a
plan for peace. So, here's one plan:
1.The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in
their affairs, past &present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini, Tojo,
Noriega, Milosovich and the rest of those 'good ole boys.' We will never
"interfere" again.
2. We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting
with Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want
us there. We would station troops at our borders. No one sneaking
through holes in the fence.
3. All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together
and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the
remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of
who or where they are. France would welcome them.
4. All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to
90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist
nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it
yourself and don't hide here. Asylum would never be available to
anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers or 7-11 cashiers.
5. No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If
they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home
baby.
6. The US will make a strong effort to become wise. This will
include developing non-polluting sources of energy but will require
a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
7. Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a
barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go some place else. They can go some where else to sell their production. (About a week of the wells filling up the storage sites would be enough.)
8. If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the
world, we will not "interfere." They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if anything.
9. Ship the UN Headquarters to an isolated island some place. We
don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides,
the building would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal
aliens.
10. All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way,
no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.
Now, ain't that a winner of a plan.
"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your
tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's
yelling, 'You want a piece of me
) Originally posted by HomeBrew
It's far more than their potential in this case. It's what they have already done. HB
And "its what they have already done" that is in question. You want to execute these people based on crimes committed by someone else. If they are guilty, then give them a trial as upheld by "our way of life". These people were rounded up in a foreign country because of the views of an administration. Your logic is like saying because you don't like Gray Davis we should attack, kill or imprison anyone from CA.(ok not a bad idea:D just kidding). The word I keep hearing you say is "they" define "they" and attack them, kill them, whoever "they" are. Just remember that if you kill even one of "them" that is innocent--you are like "they" are. Friendly fire is an accident, vigilantes are morons.
Originally posted by Toyotathon
Don't wanna get into a big debate - but Robin hits the nail on the head!!!!!
Subject: The Robin
Williams' Plan- LOVE IT!
Leave it to Robin Williams to come up with the perfect plan...
Robin Williams did not write this. May leave a warm fuzzy feeling for all that received the email, but the only line belonging to him in this is: "The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your
tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's
yelling, 'You want a piece of me".
I assure you the comment he made was for laughter in a "stand up" and had nothing to do with context of this email.
Zero Tolerance
10-10-2003, 11:48 PM
id execute every damn last one of them!
and smile the whole time....actually i think i would enjoy it!..only thing i would dislike....is knowing that i was running out of scums to kill
Dave420
10-10-2003, 11:56 PM
I think you all have missed the point.if we ignore the convention and do not treat the prisioners we take in accordance with international law -then no one now or in future wars will be required to treat our guys in accordance with them.HB -you may not see it ,but your views are racist.what you are saying is if you are a arab and live in the middle east then screw you -die.for that you are no better then the people you hate(kill the infidels).but the big picture is what this administration is doing now will only put our guys in more danger then they already are -not to mention it gives "those people" one more reason to hate us.if we are gona preach equality then we need to pratice it.something this liar president(as opposed to the one that lied about a blow job) dont seem to get.
HomeBrew
10-11-2003, 12:16 AM
It was with tongue in cheek that I agreed with ZT about killing em all.
"I'm not saying mistreat them in any way, I certainly hope we would never lower ourselves to their level".
But detaining them is only in our own best interest. If it takes detaining them forever, so be it..
"They" is a good word don't ya think. They to me is all those who knew the plan to kill the innocent, those who sheltered them, those who share their belief that all American deserve to die, those who put up a fight to protect those who attacked us, those who abused the women and people of Afghanistan and restricted their ability to live free.
I think you'll find if you drive your friend across town to kill someone knowingly, you are a guilty as he is. I really don't have any "pity" for these people.
HB
Dave420
10-11-2003, 12:34 AM
well the problem is in point of view -
"They to me ...those who share their belief that all American deserve to die" -this would cover most of the arab world it is all they have ever known -this would not mean they would do it them selves-
"those who put up a fight to protect those who attacked us"-
if you are in the army ,it does not matter if you agree with the war or not -if you refuse to fight we will shoot you our selves -not much choice there.
"those who abused the women and people of Afghanistan and restricted their ability to live free." -lets not even go there -afghanistan is not the only place this happens -hell it happens here in our own backyard.
" think you'll find if you drive your friend across town to kill someone knowingly, you are a guilty as he is." -the difference is I would be charged with a crime and given a trial -I never said to let someone who is guilty go free-but I will say it is wrong to hold someone indefinitly without charging them with doing something wrong and giving them a trial- under the blanket guise of "National security". keep in mind several of these dangerous criminals(though they have been found guilty of nothing)are boys under 12 years old that did nothing more then defend their country from invaders.
"I really don't have any "pity" for these people." -that is a shame ,because that statment would show that you are no better then them.
and lets not forget "But detaining them is only in our own best interest. If it takes detaining them forever, so be it.." it speaks for its self
HomeBrew
10-11-2003, 12:41 AM
Dave I'm no racist. We can debate this and share our opinions, but that was uncalled for. The people in cuba this whole debate started over, are the "they" I'm talking about. Why do you think they are there, knitting in sunday school. If they are there I trust our government enough to believe there is a good reason. And no I don't blindly believe in our government. Thanks but no thanks, you can debate with yourself. You certainly don't need my opinion, your mind is already made up. Bush is the Devil and there is no God.
HB
Originally posted by HomeBrew
Dave I'm no racist. We can debate this and share our opinions, but that was uncalled for. The people in cuba this whole debate started over, are the "they" I'm talking about. Why do you think they are there, knitting in sunday school. If they are there I trust our government enough to believe there is a good reason. And no I don't blindly believe in our government. Thanks but no thanks, you can debate with yourself. You certainly don't need my opinion, your mind is already made up. Bush is the Devil and there is no God.
HB
OK, let me get this straight-<"We can debate this and share our opinions">--but the next line is <"that was uncalled for">. Grow some boy! You are talking about convictions here! <"Thanks but no thanks, you can debate with yourself."> (read disclaimer in forum menu). <"You certainly don't need my opinion, your mind is already made up."> Is this to say your mind is not made up? Will you change your opinion? <"I trust our government enough to believe there is a good reason."> - Then trust in what our country was based on-a judicial system that is supposed to be fair and un-biased. <Bush is the Devil and there is no God.> Your words not mine, however if a person says there is no "God" he likely won't believe in the Devil. Perhaps the next mission is to kill or imprison those who have no "god", will that make ya feel better?
Dave420
10-11-2003, 01:20 AM
Originally posted by HomeBrew
Dave I'm no racist.
HB
never said you were -I said you may not see it ,but your views are racist-meaning the statments you were making-sory if you took it any other way -but I stand by what I said.as for Bush being the devil -I didnt say that either -I said that I hate him and his policies are dangerous.
but hey if you cant take a heated debate then I guess......... I WIN ...... :D (J/K...I think ;) )
Toyotathon
10-11-2003, 01:26 AM
I tried to hold back!!!! Really!
RED CROSS / GENEVA CONVENTION - - - -
"The agency, which is the guardian of the Geneva Conventions on the conduct of warfare, noted that the U.S. has refused to grant the detainees prisoner of war status but promised to treat them humanely.
Whatever the status, the ICRC said: “People held as a result of conflict or armed violence are protected by international humanitarian law, and should be treated humanely.”
WEBSTERS - - - -
Humanly - (1) in a human manner (2) bu human means (3) from a human veiwpoint
TOYOTATHONS - - - -
WHERE WAS THE "RED ****ING CROSS" AND THE "GENEVA CONVENTION" WHEN THE EVENTS FROM THE HEADLINES BELOW TOOK PLACE!!!!
NEW YORK - Among the 2,792 names on the official World Trade Center death toll are 42 people actually listed as missing because their remains have not been identified and their whereabouts on Sept. 11 cannot be established with certainty.
HANOI (Reuters) - The remains of four U.S. servicemen killed in the Vietnam War were flown out on Tuesday, the third repatriation this year as the former foes deepen military cooperation.
TODAY (now - 10/10/03 - 1:48 am est): Some 1,800 American troops are still officially posted missing from the Vietnam War.
AGAIN - I MUST ASK >>>> WHERE WAS (IS) THE "RED ****ING CROSS" AND THE "GENEVA CONVENTION"?????
DON'T HERE MUCH FROM THE "RED ****ING CROSS" AND THE "GENEVA CONVENTION" ABOUT MICHAEL SPEICHER - DO YOU!!!!! WHAT ABOUT HIS MENTAL STATE?????
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. officials Monday downplayed a published report that a Navy pilot initially thought to have been killed in action during the Persian Gulf War might be alive and held in Iraq.
"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your
tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's
yelling, 'You want a piece of me!!!!
Originally posted by Toyotathon
I tried to hold back!!!! Really!
RED CROSS / GENEVA CONVENTION - - - -
"The agency, which is the guardian of the Geneva Conventions on the conduct of warfare, noted that the U.S. has refused to grant the detainees prisoner of war status but promised to treat them humanely.
Whatever the status, the ICRC said: “People held as a result of conflict or armed violence are protected by international humanitarian law, and should be treated humanely.”
WEBSTERS - - - -
Humanly - (1) in a human manner (2) bu human means (3) from a human veiwpoint
TOYOTATHONS - - - -
WHERE WAS THE "RED ****ING CROSS" AND THE "GENEVA CONVENTION" WHEN THE EVENTS FROM THE HEADLINES BELOW TOOK PLACE!!!!
NEW YORK - Among the 2,792 names on the official World Trade Center death toll are 42 people actually listed as missing because their remains have not been identified and their whereabouts on Sept. 11 cannot be established with certainty.
HANOI (Reuters) - The remains of four U.S. servicemen killed in the Vietnam War were flown out on Tuesday, the third repatriation this year as the former foes deepen military cooperation.
TODAY (now - 10/10/03 - 1:48 am est): Some 1,800 American troops are still officially posted missing from the Vietnam War.
AGAIN - I MUST ASK >>>> WHERE WAS (IS) THE "RED ****ING CROSS" AND THE "GENEVA CONVENTION"?????
DON'T HERE MUCH FROM THE "RED ****ING CROSS" AND THE "GENEVA CONVENTION" ABOUT MICHAEL SPEICHER - DO YOU!!!!! WHAT ABOUT HIS MENTAL STATE?????
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. officials Monday downplayed a published report that a Navy pilot initially thought to have been killed in action during the Persian Gulf War might be alive and held in Iraq.
"The Statue of Liberty is no longer saying 'Give me your poor, your
tired, your huddled masses.' She's got a baseball bat and she's
yelling, 'You want a piece of me!!!!
You tried to hold WHAT back? So you are saying that because other nations did not uphold the Geneva convention that we should throw it out too?
Originally posted by Toyotathon
ARTICLE 22
Prisoners of war may be interned only
Prisoners of WAR, when did we declare war?
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